Curse

tastegw · Feb 12, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Exhausting Failure - Dual Attack 5e 10re
Must follow an off-hand attack. Target foe's action is interrupted. If that action was casting a spell, target foe suffers from Exhaustion.

this attack skill the assasin has is really quite unique. so far, its the only skill in the game (that i know of) that can cause exhaustion to the enemy.

here is a description of exhaustion:

Quote:

The only purely self-inflicted condition in the game, exhaustion is a condition to work around. Upon casting a spell that causes exhaustion, a character has their maximum energy reduced by 10, which regenerates naturally at a rate of one energy every three seconds. Multiple instances of exhaustion stack, lowering a character's maximum energy even further and taking even longer to regenerate. Exhaustion is only a problem in excess - if used once every thirty seconds, the effects of exhaustion are barely noticeable, but if used more often the effects will quickly build up and cripple a character.

this is the old guildwars guru description of this condition, as you see, its inccorect now. it says "purely self inflicted"... but now the rules have changed with the addition of the assasins Exhausting Failure.

now lets take into account of say 3 assasins that have the skill to actually land hits with Exhausting Failure on a opposing monk.
say monk A has 40 energy. within 10-15 seconds, this monk can be totaly out of energy due to exhaustion from this skill with the right number of assasins on it.

the skill is so dangerous that im afraid of what lies ahead in future pvp matches after factions is released.

just imagine this 4 skill combo being used by just 2 assasins on your team.

Sharpen Daggers - Enchantment Spell
For 10...30 seconds, all of your critical hits cause bleeding for 5...13 seconds.

Mantis Sting - Lead Attack 5e 12re
If Mantis Stings hits, target foe takes +5...+17 damage. If this attack strikes a bleeding foe, that foe is crippled for 3...13 seconds.

Temple Strike {Elite} - Off-hand Attack 10e 12re
Must follow a lead attack. If this attack hits, target foe is interrupted, Dazed, and Blinded for 1...7 seconds.

Exhausting Failure - Dual Attack 5e 10re
Must follow an off-hand attack. Target foe's action is interrupted. If that action was casting a spell, target foe suffers from Exhaustion.

this chain of attacks can get target bleeding, crippled, dazed, blind(not that this one matters) and exhausted, not to mention interupted a few times (depending on assasins skills)

now add in a crippling shot apply poison ranger attacking this same target, the dazed would get covered very fast and really leaving this enemy monk useless untill one of its teamates rid of all condtions with either "draw conditions" "restore condtions" or "martyr". say the assasins were smart and did this to the prot monk that usually carries one of these 3 skills. now he must rely on a teamate to either spam mend ale or of having a second char on the team with one of the three skills listed above.

i guess my point is, this exhaustion can get abused and seriously cripple an important member of a team very fast.
no longer a need to kill a monk when you can just "over" stack exhuation on him and that dazed just makes it worse.

so all in all, a really heavy conditions team + the use of this exhation abuse can be really overwelming. teams my have to adjust their total mindset of "protection" in the future of guildwars if this skill "Exhausting Failure" remains the way it curently is.

warriors dps of 40+ per second
necros disease on 5 enemies = 40 dps also.

Phades · Feb 12, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

If this were a lead off attack it would be more interesting, but any monk casting through concussion and have this skill stick against him deserves to die more or less. Otherwise the monk has to play a waiting game and hope the rest of his team can re-enable his ability to act. Re-applying it every 12s or so to build up the exhaustion over time could prove to be problematic considering it is the "last" hit in the combo. I would be willing to guess that the monk would be dead long before the exhaustion built up to the point where the individual was unusable.

Against condition stacks like this, i believe mend body and soul from the ritualist lines may become popular because it heals and removes multiple conditions and is relativly cheap to use. I would guess 2-3 per casting on average depending on the range and spirits involved. It is not as fast as draw conditions and is not eliete like restore conditions or martyr. Purge is a little slow on the reuse though.

I suppose its something that time will tell the outcome.

tastegw · Feb 12, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

well said.

the use of ritualist will indeed be a factor in what lies ahead.

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E · Feb 12, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

I'll bet a monster will get its hands on Exhausting Failure... perhaps some high level place like NUW/HoH...

Kai Nui · Feb 12, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

That was never true. Glint could cause exhastion.

Vermilion Okeanos · Feb 12, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

That was never true. Glint could cause exhastion.

Glint can not cause exhaustion on you unless you use a skill during that hex time.

Those assasin exhaustion and daze skills only remind me of how awkard the skull crack was... The only target those things can hit are ele.

Rajamic · Feb 12, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Those assasin exhaustion and daze skills only remind me of how awkard the skull crack was... The only target those things can hit are ele.

I was just going to point this out. Assassin daggers attack at 1 hit every 1.33 seconds, just like swords and axes. The attack in question has no activation time, so it goes on the same timing as the next attack. This makes it just as likely to cause exhaustion as a sword or axe warrior is to cause dazed with Skull Crack, if they bring it. It's not a simple process. Also, since the attack must interrupt to cause the exhaustion, the 3 assassins would have to interrupt multiple spells with this unruly skill to cause the exhaustion stacking you describe.

One also has to consider that there may very well be a skill still hidden behind the curtain that removes/transfers exhaustion.

ReclinerOfRage · Feb 16, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

I think you should get over the whole noobish "OOOH LOOK AT WHAT IT CAN DO EXHAUSTION@[email protected]$@!" mentality and take a good look at why this skill (and why assassins, in general) is absolute shit.

This will never be run by anyone decent in GVG because:

a) It's a dual attack. Which first requires an off-hand attack. Which requires a leading attack.

b) It's an elite. Even if this WASN'T an elite, nobody would run this over Twisting Fangs.

c) It requires you to actually interrupt a spell to get the exhaustion effect.
Chances of you interrupting a .25-1sec cast spell on a run of the mill boonprot is nil. This is also ignoring the fact that you will be blinded, crippled, and will have missed your leading and offhand attacks multiple times from guardian, aegis, weapon of warding, and shadowsong.

d) Even in the one in a hundred chance you do land it, it only causes 10 exhaustion. Big f'ing whoop! You are helping the monk by providing him with an extra bar of natural regen from the exhaustion quirk.

e) It's nothing but a shitty attack based interrupt that will never land on anyone and never be used by anyone except in CA and noob pugs in HA.

What I'm trying to say overall is that Assassins are flawed from a design perspective. They'll be played by noobies in CA, and will be used for nothing more than utility in games that matter.

Lord Ertihan · Feb 16, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Alright, man, geez there's no need to start flaming Assassins in general. They've got their useless skills, just like everyone else (Flourish ring a bell?), but they've got their really powerful skills too (*ahem!* Temple Strike). From a design perspective, Assassins are basically the elementalists of the physical attacking world: they are meant to do a good amount of damage in a short period of time, but sacrifice survivability for it. Not to mention the fact that:
1) Critical Defenses refreshes every time you score a critical hit.
2) Wild Blow is guarenteed to be a Critical Hit, and blows through Whirling and other Evasion/Block techs.
So their defenses aren't really quite as bad as people make out.

Other things you say that are blatantly incorrect:
b) It's not an elite. Temple Strike is the Elite, not Exausting Failure. Granted I would use Twisting Fangs over it, nevertheless, with Disrupting Stab, Temple Strike, and Exhausting Failure, you can chain-gun three interrupting stabs very fast (especially if you've got something like Flurry active).
d) His idea wasn't a single Assassin using it, but mulitple Assassins running it, in an attempt to Exaust a monk to death. Granted, it won't work, but it's no reason to start flaming.

I do have the feeling that Assassin primaries probably won't be so critical in GvG, but don't diss the whole class, especially since I imagine that teleportation skills like Recall will be critical for roles like the flag runner. They already run fastrun skills like Storm Chaser, I don't see why they wouldn't consider casting Recall on the Guild Lord for an instant port-back-to-the-flag tech.

By the way, one thing that really should be considered is the inherent fragility of the assassin class. It's really got very few ways to defend itself, and is very easily shut down (much easier than a warrior, because it needs to combo its attacks). Misstechs will hurt you, so you'll have to consider possible ways to ensure your attacks will land. Possibilities include:
Expose Defenses: the only advantage of this is that you don't need to rely on a secondary for this. Bad part is you might not want anything in shadow arts.
Rigor Mortis: Might not want Necro secondary, might not like Curses, which gives this hex something of a downside too.
Warrior's Cunning: problem is, without warrior primary this (being Str based), wont last very long.
Alright, granted, you don't have too many options for guarenteed hits. Still, these options ARE here. You could even consider Guided Weapon.

Guardian of the Light · Feb 16, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Monks if you got a Assassin on you who intrupts one of your spells and causes you exhastion don't use anything after a while after he does a Offhand attack.

However there might be a good combo...

Some Lead attack--> Some offhand Attack---> Repeating Stike (use a few times)---> EXHASTING FAILURE

Sacrificing 4 skill slots just so you can get exhaustion on the target (not to mention being a easily destoyed combo) seems fare to me.

Basically this is ideal for those Repeating Strike Assassin

Phades · Feb 16, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Repeating strike is rather unusable by the assasin primary. In order to sustain it, you would basically have to crit on every attack with critical eye triggering every time. Its one of those ranger things.

I guess its "nice" in a sense that you can stall the combo, but in reality the combos recycle relativly quick enough to make it a non-issue really. The bigger issue tends to be having the entire combo land in the first place.

Wacky · Feb 22, 2006, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReclinerOfRage

d) Even in the one in a hundred chance you do land it, it only causes 10 exhaustion. Big f'ing whoop! You are helping the monk by providing him with an extra bar of natural regen from the exhaustion quirk.

Sorry if this is a noob question, but how does this work?

Assuming it's becuase you get back the energy that got greyed out by exhaustion, aren't you still only getting back energy you lost in the first place?

Vermilion Okeanos · Feb 22, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

When you gray out completely, your energy will recover even if you have 0 pipe of energy regen.

If you use obsidian flame when you have full mp... the cost is actually 10, not 5.

Exhaustion recover at the rate of .3 energy per sec, which is basically another pipe of regen.

antialias02 · Feb 22, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but the Mesmer is going to have an elite hex skill that will also cause every spell cast in the next X seconds to induce exhaustion.

So it's not an Assassin-only deal.

Esprit · Feb 23, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Causing exhaustion is going to be the next new fad...

Juicey Shake · Feb 23, 2006, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but the Mesmer is going to have an elite hex skill that will also cause every spell cast in the next X seconds to induce exhaustion.

So it's not an Assassin-only deal.

Arcane Languor - Elite Hex - Domination - 10e, 2c, 30r
For x seconds, all spells cast by target foe cause exhaustion. [src]

antialias02 · Feb 23, 2006, 04:28 AM // 04:28

The very skill I mean. Thanks for posting the details.

Guardian of the Light · Feb 23, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

In that list I saw soul reaping skills.

One of which is one I suggested. A different name the same ideal.

twicky_kid · Feb 23, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

This skill will never be used.

1. Its an elite.

2. Why they hell would you ever choose this over temple strike?

3. Its an attack interrupt which only has a chance of interrupting a spell that is 2+ seconds casting unless by luck.

4. Its a dual attack. Since it is an elite you cannot use Palm strike to go directly to your dual attack. You are forced to go lead>off-hand>dual unless you can work falling spider into the mix. That req even more "perfect" conditions. Besides the only dual attack that is ever going to see play is twisted fangs (unless it or others have been changed).

In general all melee attack interrupts are horrible with the exception of distracting swipe. The only reason that's usable is the 1/2 casting.

I wouldn't waste more time on this skill or any other melee interrupts unless they are 1/2 casting.

LightningHell · Feb 23, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

It's Elite?

I never noticed. I seem to have brought it with Temple Strike...